Friday, September 3, 2010

Le Grand Orient de France devient mixte (The Grand Orient of France becomes Mixed)


I recently received the following news regarding our sister Obedience, the Grand Orient of France:

"The Largest masonic obedience in France changed this Thursday evening its operating rules to authorize the members of its lodges to initiate women. The Grand Orient of France also elected a new Grand Master in the person of Guy Arcizet."

At last year's annual Convent, the Grand Orient of France narrowly voted against allowing it's lodges to accept women as members. Of course, as with other liberal Masonic obediences, women Masons have always been welcome as visitors.

Under the new rules, each lodge will be able to decide whether or not to actually accept women as members of the lodge. Women members of the Grand Orient of France will be eligible to hold elected office in the Obedience.

This is historic news. The Grand Orient of France, the oldest Masonic body in that country, founded in 1733, will now have women as members after 267 years of existence.

Congratulations to our Brothers (and soon, Sisters) in the Grand Orient of France!

31 comments:

Prexy said...

Far be it from me to question our French Brethren, but one word comes to mind in this case: why? There are already ample choices for mixed gender Freemasonry in France, and now very few for those who prefer a masculine only, liberal obedience. This move only seems to take away choice rather than add to it.

San Diego Freemason said...

That is true. I am still of a "mixed" opinion regarding the decision. I have always supported the idea of all three options being available.

Actually though, since the new ruling allows lodges to remain all male, if they so choose, the GOdF is not technically a mixed-gender obedience.

That raises the question; if a currently male lodge can choose to be either all-male or mixed, is their the possibility of an all-female lodge now in the GOdF?

If that were the case, then the GOdF would be offering all three options within one obedience.

I will look into that.

Magus Masonica said...

Peter,
If you have a "mixed" feeling about this it means you care more about institutionalism that actual equality. I should have guessed.

IN LVX,
BC

JEL said...

Peter and Prexy,
My objection to this would only arise if it disolved the feesability of Female only lodges. Forcing women to work mix gendered or not at all.
While some women, and men, do enjoy the mixed experience, there are certainly those women, who's thoughts I have detailed elsewhere, that do want seperate but equal.
We are after all talking about a decision made on the Continenet and not the USA.

San Diego Freemason said...

June,

I agree. My feelings are that I prefer a mixed lodge experience, but I believe the option should remain for single-gender lodges. I think that it would be good if a single jurisdiction allowed all three types within its structure.

That is why I am interested to know if the GOdF will allow women only lodges now, since they already will have men only, and mixed.

San Diego Freemason said...

B:. Willy was having difficulty and asked me to post this for him:

"I agree with Magus Masonica. What possible (and rational) reason would anyone have to prefer a single-gender obedience? Is it an unreasoned attachment to the status quo? Or worse, is it machismo, sexism or misogyny? Since when can't men and women labor together to shed Further Light?"

WEG
heretic2go

JEL said...

Willy,

Some women do prefer to work female only, it isn't just a male exclusion. Men and women DO think differently, and diferent issues effect each sex in unique ways.
I have complete respect for those lodges that do work mixed. But, for those who wish male only or female only- respect them as well.
Not every woman will be comfortable presenting views on menstruation and menapause with men about.

I don't think debating HOW Masons should work is fruitful. But that they do the work in an enviroment of respect, recognition and fraternity..

Magus Masonica said...

Thank you Bro.Willy. I have heard the preference argument more times than I can count and it is really to sour to stomach. It makes no more rational sense than someone saying they prefer a lodge of only Anglo-Saxon's or of only Christians.

If Freemasonry when we speak of Brotherhood we reference the Brotherhood of mankind. This includes both sexes. The pillars of B & J, the compass as well as the square.

IN LVX,
BC
1613 Nation

Magus Masonica said...

How are menstruation and menopause really relevant Masonic topics? Seems like an extreme example to make a point that has no 21st century validity.

I wouldn't want jock-itch or enlarged prostate to be topics for a tyled lodge room either. There seems to be more appropriate settings for such discussions.

The facts of the matter is no matter what flavor the Craft , both masculine and feminine symbolism abound. They are as inseparable to the ceremonial work of Freemasonry as oxygen is to a flame.

IN LVX,
BC
1613 Nation

בחייכם. עכשיו תעזבו אותי בשק טלכל אויבי, אני מאחל לכם כל טוב

John Galt said...

I have no rational reason for not wanting Canadian bacon on my pizza. I just don't want it there. If you will not be dining with me then your opinion matters very little on the subject.

Sister June pointed out that males and females are different. Anyone with eyes can see that, or they can review the mountains of evidence in biology and psychology that does show that men and women are different in more ways than in just the obvious surface features. Cognition is also different between the sexes.

The philosophy of mixed gender Masonry is laudable. Is it so laudable that it should be forced on those that do not agree or simply do not want it? If so, who decides which things can be forced on a lodge? I may decide that all lodges should close with the electric slide instead of a chain of union. I think it raises energy levels. Should I be able to force that on lodges?

Magus Masonica said...

Really Brandt? That tired argument? Honestly, I expect more. That same argument is used by Hillbillies as to why the "don't want none coloreds" in their lodges. Do they have that right? Apparently. Is it Masonic? It accordance to ritual I would say no, but that's me.

Then again, if I where a pizza Mason I might have another P.O.V.

IN LVX,
BC
1613 Nation

John Galt said...

The argument is far from tired and far from addressed. You are working under the belief that you should be permitted to force your ideas on others.

Regarding "pizza mason." You may well have a different point of view if you were a pizza mason (whatever that is). Of course you are aware that pizza was used as an analogy but you couldn't pass up the opportunity to take a personal shot could you.

Can you argue your point intelligently and address how you believe you should be permitted to force your ideas on others?

Magus Masonica said...

Brandt, I have to admit that it makes me smile every time I am accused of having more power than I can possibly
possess. Seriously, how is it in my power to "force" anything on you?

You are either going to agree with me and possibly act on that agreement. Or, you're going to disagree and possibly act on that disagreement. The third option is that you don't care what my position or argument is. None of these situations implies you yielding under my force of will.

As to your argument yes it is tired. Like I have pointed out a thousand times before. That same argument is used to justify racial discrimination and religious discrimination in Freemasonry. You decry both of those, I have read you do so.

So, it's kind of nonsensical to rehash that same template.

As to the pizza mason lighten up :) It's only Masonry :)

IN LVX,
BC
1613 Nation

IN LVX,

John Galt said...

It is only Masonry. Lighten up.

Sure, you have no power at all over others. Quit bothering about again. You and I both know about those lodges that have used that logical argument to keep whatever they view as an undesirable out.

So.

Don't deal with them. Ignore them, and marginalize them. When enough Masons reject them then they will be a fringe. In the mean time, do what you do and move along.

2 BOWL CAIN said...

Bro Peteprint,
You are way too kind.
Do you work in EMS?
Quit plugging in the machine on MM.
Leave the plug out and let nature take its course.
SMIB

JEL said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
JEL said...

Brandt,

Honestly, why do you entertain someone hardly valid as a human let alone as a Mason? His opinions are non sense. Perhaps we would all do better to remember to not "cast our pearls before swine".

As for menstruation etc, AASR the first instruction given a new EA is " madame, every thing is symbol"
So no topic is off limits. Menstruation- cycles of the moon- cycles of life- cycle from sand to stone to temple..

I have said

JEL said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Magus Masonica said...

June is obviously miserable. I hope that she turns that around as it cannot be a good place to be.

Menstruation obviously is not Masonicly symbolic.

Brandt, I am curious why you
you seem to get offended when I weigh in on topics on blogs and forums. Your not alone on this but I just find it very interesting that some act as if the entire internet is a private domain.

It astounds me. Especially this attitude amongst so many "liberals" and "progressive."

You are right in one respect. I honestly don't care what anyone outside of the MEAPRMM or 1613 does. But I do on occasion feel like giving my opinion on topics I find interesting.

IN LVX,
BC
1613 Nation

JEL said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
JEL said...

Wow, can we ask for further proof of his ignorance? I would adore reading a work of architecture written by any of Cofield's personas..I can just imagine

And also perfect proof of my point. Some men can not make that leap into fully appreciating women's issues and how women tie their specific differences into Masonic symbol.

Far from miserable. I'm happy to be...living in a haters mind rent free since July 2010

have to laugh

Magus Masonica said...

June,
Good luck finding hater. I'd have to care about you in order to hate. On the other hand I'm on your mind 24/7.

But I honestly do wish you well. May you find a quarry to put in some work and occupy your time. Attempting to buddy up with those who used to threaten you just doesn't give off an image of strength.

IN LVX,
BC
1613 Nation

John Galt said...

Not offended at all. Amused mostly. Of course it is just your opinions that you are putting out there. Does that preclude me from doing the same?

Maybe that is another manifestation of your belief that you should be allowed to force your ideas on others. Wouldn't that be grand? It is noted that you have still not addressed the question.

All we are doing here is discussing a development in the Masonic world.

Magus Masonica said...

I don't want to force my "ideas" on anyone. In fact I really don't care if anyone shares my "ideas" or they don't. One thing you should know by now Brandt is that I am not motivated by popular (or even remotely popular) opinion.

I have no problem standing on my own, now or ever.

I think it is great that the GOdF has finally decided to live up to their tagline. But in an everyday application I could really care less about what the GOdF does or doesn't do.

Now, Brandt if you wish to continue your circular line of thinking don't let me stop you.

IN LVX,
BC
1613 Nation

John Galt said...

As if I would amigo. I have also never seen a circular line, that is just me though.

Hell, my lodge has no prohibition to women being initiated. Now, talk about how enlightened I am. It is easy for one lodge to make that decision. We were able to do it by discussing amongst ourselves without forcing anything on anyone. Civil discourse won the day. That can happen when a lodge is open to ideas and is willing to work. Of course that doesn't need to be forced on anyone.

Magus Masonica said...

Brandt,
That's the great thing (IMHO) about the 1613. Everything is put out on the table. Starting with the manifesto. If you don't agree with gender equal Freemasonry we are not for you. If you don't agree with deeply occult magical Freemasonry we are not for you. If you don't like the idea of being a pariah in the view of millions we are not for you. If you do not embrace the grass roots DIY pragmatic ethic we are not for you. If you need the approval of others we are not for you.

It's always good to know what is behind the door before you choose to knock on it.

No one forces you upon the porch, just as no one forces you over the threshold. There should be commonalities but sadly that itself is a pipedream.

Full steam ahead, damn the torpedoes.

IN LVX,
BC
1613 Nation

2 BOWL CAIN said...

why do you allow your blog to be a place for brad and brandt to argue back and forth, a place for brad to denegrate a lady any chance ge gets?

you will have a better time by not posting their discourse.

brad also attacked willie at the old blue lodge forums.

he will kill any harmony you could have.

your blog though

San Diego Freemason said...

Brother 2Bowl,

I hope to allow frank and open discussions here, unless someone crosses the line and begins using profanity or the attacks get too personal.

I appreciate your sentiments though. I do think that this discussion has run its course. Everyone has been able to have their say. I don't know what else could be added that would be of much value regarding the GOdF opening to women.

Fraternally,

Peter

JEL said...

I must second 2 bowl's comments.
Brad is a cowan, con artist,and proven liar, he should have no opinion to share.
And I do think his verbiage has crossed the line-TOO MANY TIMES

But it is your blog. I will not offer comments any time Brad is involved. Not worth the waste of energy

2 BOWL CAIN said...

מאחל לכם ולמשפחתכם,
שנה טובה,
שנת שלום ובריאות

San Diego Freemason said...

Happy New Year Brother 2Bowl!